Below is an exchange that my husband had with a person who defended Theophostic Prayer Ministry on a You Tube promotional video (the original screen capture is at the right):
Timothy Burgess:
Beware false cures by false memories created with this.... This approach to counseling is ‘recovered memory‘ reboot that destroyed thousands of families in the 1980's and 90’s with false memories . Read the testimonials of those who have actually suffered from the false memories generated by TPM
lethimwhoboasts:
You apparently don't know Theophostic... If anyone is leading, directing, or suggesting memory content as a facilitator, it is not Theophostic, it's something else, no matter what they're calling it. Further, the focus is not on memory content, it is on current beliefs which are often from things that have happened....First of all, if you are going to comment on my video, you may post a link, but do it ONCE. ONCE is enough. Anything more is SPAM, and will simply be deleted. I have read the testimonies many times, though not from that site. However, there are many people who do TPM wrong!
Timothy Burgess:
Why the hold harmless agreements? l wonder if anyone who signs on thinks about that’? There is a lot of money changing hands and by claiming to be religious one can protect the profit. Lawsuits brought ‘recovered memory therapy' to a just end but this with hold harmless and religious trappings will protect the income. This ministry is sadly still doing the same damage without being accountable in this world.
lethimwhoboasts:
Why sign a waiver? Because people are people, and wounded people wound others.. Not everyone who comes for ministry is interested in getting help... As Jesus asked, Do you want to be made well?
Timothy Burgess:
So Jesus had his apostles sign waivers and hold harmless agreements to protect his assets before he asked ‘Do you want to be made well?‘ or is it that the horrid producing recovered memory techniques have been uncovered since the 1990's and those who use them are financially liable? I think the latter.
lethimvvhoboasts:
in the realm of pastoral counselling and lay ministry, TPM aside. it only makes sense... Many people have many differing expectations when they arrive. it is more a reflection on current American legal culture than it is ministry... But, waivers have nothing at all to do with
Timothy Burgess:
The precedence for those who help a client create ‘repressed memories" being civilly held liable has nothing to do with it? is it possible that the errant belief in ‘repressed memories‘ is needlessly fracturing families and hurting many clients in this ministry and this is how such threats are mitigated‘? Should everyone stick their head in the sand and go along and pretend this is not so? Any method that relies on the mythical ‘repressed memories‘ needs to be 'outed' and held responsible.
lethimvvhoboasts:
TPM is not about repressed memories
Timothy Burgess:
‘Healing Life's Hurts‘ Pg 142 ‘what convinces me more than anything else of the reality of repressed memories...‘ is a pretty strong rebuke of the facts and findings of validated and corroborated and repeated studies. In fact in 2010 the 2nd Circ Court ordered a review and reversal of ALL cases relying on repressed memories because they are so commonly known to be unreliable and FALSE. The ‘book’ clearly states the position and reliance on this nonsense. In addition the public accountings of the tragedies make it all clear that this approach relies on a method that does produce fraudulent memories.
7/25/2016
lethimwhoboasts:
I said TPM was not about repressed memories, meanijg, it is not it's focus. TPM deals with the subject, yes, just as any ministry should, AS IT IS AN ISSUE FOR THE CLIENT. Some people have repressed memories, that's a fact. The focus on TPM is not the memory content, it is the lies one believes which may be connected with any part of memory, including any repressed memories. The process neither validates nor belittled any proposed memory, but is about asking God for His truth where we have painful beliefs that cause negative emotion.
7/25/2016
lethimwhoboasts:
I said TPM was not about repressed memories, meanijg, it is not it's focus. TPM deals with the subject, yes, just as any ministry should, AS IT IS AN ISSUE FOR THE CLIENT. Some people have repressed memories, that's a fact. The focus on TPM is not the memory content, it is the lies one believes which may be connected with any part of memory, including any repressed memories. The process neither validates nor belittled any proposed memory, but is about asking God for His truth where we have painful beliefs that cause negative emotion.
Timothy Burgess:
None of the possible factors matter to the author because IF there is "healing" and "transformation" then the "memory" must be "true"? The fact that the event never occurred is not a considered plausible? Using this reasoning truth can be "created" to explain how the client is not responsible for having a life in shambles through some misfortune or bad decision making. Freed of responsibility, and convinced that the "repressed memory" is true, the client can be now be fully "healed"?
Memory researchers have found that they can change eating preferences by "planting" memories (Loftus et al.). The diets of the participants in the study then changed to include more fruits and vegetables! It is well known, and replicated in studies, that false memories DO change behavior as if they actually happened and has been replicated over the last 2 decades time and time again.
Falsely accused innocents are not mentioned in the book. These new victims may be forced to live with destruction to their reputation, loss of career, may face charges and experience jail time. Many innocents have been quickly convicted in emotional trials and then imprisoned for decades. Others, not accused, live broken hearted and shamed by the accusations against friend or family. Loving parents, grandparents, aunts, uncles and cousins are arbitrarily "cut off" and shunned.
These new victims do not matter to the author because the "repressed memory" must be true if the client believes them to be true. The client is "healed" and "transformed". The new victims, multiplied many times, are not even mentioned by the author. It appears that the Theophostic creator does not think that these newly created victims exist. Spreading tragedy, of course, is much easier when you are blind to it.
lethimwhoboasts:
wwll, repressed memories do happen, so I'm not sure what you're claiming. Further, you seem to want to argue endlessly. I don't agree with you. This is doubly true if you flatly saying these things CAN'T happen, because they can. They can be abused, and are, but there are the real.
Timothy Burgess:
Dr. Elizabeth Loftus is a recognized memory expert and researcher who dared to question "repressed memories". She also suffered abuse herself but was not blinded to the truth that "repressed memories" are highly unreliable and often false IF they exist at all. Many many people are falsely accused based on "repressed memories". Twenty years later, after being maligned and threatened and sued she has been vindicated. Scientists, lawyers, professionals and now the courts all agree. "Repressed memories" are a myth that harm the client (in the long run), undermine justice and brings great harm to families. It is worth the endless argument if you are exposed to the truth. It is a sad day that you continue to hold to a myth, long disproven, rejected by experts, rejected by the courts and claim to be doing the work of our God. Very sad that so many are harmed by this delusion.
It may be helpful for you to read the previous post. Proof of an event IS NOT substantiated by a miracle cure. In fact false memories do change people. So the use of "healing" to validate a memory claim is misguided at best and destructive to the innocents the are falsely accused.
Do you believe in repressed memories of alien subductions? Do you believe in repressed memories of past lives as an eagle, a cow or Roman soldier? Then I guess my position would definitely seem extreme to you and my argument endless. The reason? You are misled and uninformed by choice. I hope that you decide not to remain that way.
lethimwhoboasts:
It just tells me you don't know everything there is to know in the world and you are not aware of how everyone else's brain works, which might be different to yours. Considering the many psychological phenomena including fugue, Folie à deux, temporary amnesia, not to mention the wide spectrum of disociation, repressed memories are well within the realm of psychologial phenomena.
But, again, you miss my point... And, I will end my discussion with this. "Repressed memories" are not the focus of TPM. They simply aren't. They are discussed by TPM, but TPM focuses on "lies" one believes, and asking God for His truth. Whether or not any 'memories' are true and their factual veracity is of little import, receiving truth and replacing lies is the only work of TPM, wherever the client happens to lead. This is well established in the current TPM training, and, quite simply, most of the information out there against them is by people doing it wrong, even focusing on repressed memories, who are not, in fact, doing TPM.
Over the years, the training seminar has increasingly differentiated itself from these positions. It never was part of them, but it has made that increasingly clear for both facilitators and clients. But, the plain truth is, people continue to do MANY things under the "name" of theophostic, when, in fact, it has nothing to do with what TPM actually is.
Anyway, I appreciate your comments. Going back and forth and re-hashing our points is not, however, beneficial.
Timothy Burgess:
I am certainly not an expert. You may want to consider a few of the world's most widely recognized experts?
Dr. Richard J. McNally is a Professor and Director of Clinical Training in the Department of Psychology at Harvard University: “The notion that traumatic events can be repressed and later recovered is the most pernicious bit of folklore ever to infect psychology and psychiatry. It has provided the theoretical basis for ‘recovered memory therapy’ — the worst catastrophe to befall the mental health field since the lobotomy era.” (he is aworld’s leading expert with 250 publications to his credit).
Dr. Grant Devilly, from the Psychological Health research unit at Griffith University (an expert in trauma and memory) says "Memories of terrifying experiences work in the opposite manner of repressed memory theory. People rather wish they could forget their traumatic experiences. It’s the opposite. They wish they couldn’t think about it,” says Devilly.
Another expert, Dr. James McGaugh from the University of California, Irvine. says"I do not believe there’s such a thing as repressed memory. I haven’t seen a single instance in which a memory was completely repressed and popped up again"...“I go on science, not fads. And there’s absolutely no proof that it can happen. Zero. None. Niente. Nada. All my research says that strong emotional experiences leave emotionally strong memories. Being sexually molested would certainly qualify.”
Dr. Richard Ofshe, a social psychologist at the University of California, Berkeley and studies on the subject of "repressed memory" states "Recovered memory therapy will come to be recognized as the quackery of the 20th century." (he has extensively researched and written numerous books, articles and peer reviewed).
Dr. Elizabeth Loftus says "You can’t be raped for 10 years and not remember it. Yet, according to the repression aficionados, anything's possible." Dr. Loftus has done hundreds of peer reviewed memory studies over the last 30 years, is a highly recognized court expert in memory, author of many books and articles, often cited in courts at the highest state and national levels, has won numerous awards for her courage and integrity. She has also hundreds of peer reviewed studies on memory manipulation.
The quotes above are gleaned from respected researchers who have done in excess of a thousand peer reviewed studies at accredited institutions. They are true experts. Does that matter to you and TPM?
I do wish to clarify a “Repressed memory” should not be confused with instances in which an abused individual minimizes the awful harm being done by not confronting the perpetrator. This is an example of the typical actual abuse that is often revealed later. That abuse is, sadly, always remembered.
I have not missed the point (of your ministry because on the idea of a "lie" we agree. People are trapped into "lies" and emotional reactions that cause them to make bad and often impulsive decisions. I get that. The "lie" categorization is similar to the cognitive therapist that claims a person in a "trap". I have no problem with that at all.
Allowing a "repressed memory" to be categorized, without challenge, as a historical event can be (and often is) very damaging. Dismissing "repressed memories" as possibly not factually true is not a trivial matter as you seem to suggest. People are being unjustly harmed. The lack of factual veracity is precisely the reason for the collateral damage to many people.
People can be healed without seeking out some emotionally laden "repressed memory" of questionable historical reality. They can be healed in spite of your wrong approach as well. So sad that your method seeks "repressed memory" out anyway. It need not be that way.
Your standard of evidence for repressed memory is deeply flawed and is certain to do harm (and based on just a cursory review of public accounts TPM has already done great harm and this does not include those who don't overcome the shame to report that harm). So rather than reflect on the issue at hand you may wish characterize me as uninformed, rigid and close minded. Does that change the truth? I pray you read my posts more carefully.
concerning the
Theophostic Prayer Ministry creator's
position on "repressed memories"....
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This is an effort to Break the Cycle of Shame
and Save Others from Similar Tragedy!
